tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post2201403945193601391..comments2023-10-08T05:00:23.559-04:00Comments on Clarissa's Blog: Feminism and Taking a Man's NameClarissahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-59611466758826238332011-05-15T23:24:27.453-04:002011-05-15T23:24:27.453-04:00This is getting too bizarre. Males mostly don'...This is getting too bizarre. Males mostly don't have vaginas. <br /><br />Be that as it may, I reserve the right to express opinions and judgments of people irrespective of their gender.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-30105260263677195452011-05-15T23:18:18.251-04:002011-05-15T23:18:18.251-04:00Your mistaken to make the assumption that all femi...Your mistaken to make the assumption that all feminists are males, and therefore have a "vagina". Also, you're inability, or unwillingness to see this as more than a black and white issue merely shows me that I sought out insight where there was none.Ms. not Mrs.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-12944711156618210392011-05-15T17:58:39.531-04:002011-05-15T17:58:39.531-04:00The idea that I shouldn't be critical of anybo...The idea that I shouldn't be critical of anybody just because she has a vagina sounds deeply sexist to me.<br /><br />I also don't see anything all that tricky and complex about the issue.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-18704614283698417712011-05-15T11:06:49.978-04:002011-05-15T11:06:49.978-04:00Well, I came to this blog through searching for so...Well, I came to this blog through searching for some input on this, because I have recently married. I also hold a Bachelors in Women and Gender Studies. I was hoping for input, and perhaps compassion on this tricky and multi dimensional problem. Instead, I feel all I got was judgment. I don't feel that feminism should be focused on excluding members to the cause. I used to think that much of what pegged women against each other, was women projection patriarchal beliefs on each other. However, in this situation it's women taking the beauty of feminism, and using it as yet another tool to dissect and separate women. I am very much aware of the history of women taking their husbands name, and of course I disagree with it...but, just as with any issue, it is very dangerous to over simplify it. I don't know what I will ultimately decide, but what I do know is women should come together as a united front against the real problems facing women.Ms. not Mrs.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-81353862286638678932011-04-20T10:58:25.670-04:002011-04-20T10:58:25.670-04:00@bellofsunshine: I actually think as a true femini...@bellofsunshine: I actually think as a true feminist you have to say no to engagement rings and engagement proposals in general. However getting married I think is open for debate in my opinion. I think getting married should be a decision made between two people (whatever gender they may be) to spend their live together. You don't have to do that but you can. It is a choice. An engagement proposal after that is a completely useless act since you have already decided and if you haven't then it is not equal in terms of gender equality if the guy has to do it. An engagement ring is either a useless symbol that was anyways invented by the diamond industry to mark that the woman is no longer available whereas the man doesn't need to be marked or it is a sign that you were able to score a wealthy husband which I am happy for you but is that your main achievement. (well then I am sorry.)Apartment Plannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04639363389736792336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-20681930024403671462011-04-20T10:35:38.359-04:002011-04-20T10:35:38.359-04:00I really wish people would read before leaving ina...I really wish people would read before leaving inane comments like this one. All this has been responded to a gazillion times before.<br /><br />Don't like your father's name? Drop it and take your mother's. Problem solved. I have been given my mother's last name at birth and through all my marriages I still wear it proudly.<br /><br />I can tell people whatever the hell I want on my own blog. <br /><br />And next time please read the discussion before posting such vapid comments.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-55423035510826218992011-04-20T01:16:35.011-04:002011-04-20T01:16:35.011-04:00I don't think that's fair. I think you can...I don't think that's fair. I think you can be a feminist and change your last name. I am thinking about changing my last name because my father is not a very nice person. Why should I have to keep HIS name? Following this line of thought, I should make up my own last name and not be defined by my father OR my husband. And maybe I SHOULD do that instead. But unless you have dropped your father's name, I don't think it's fair to attack women who take their husband's name because you don't know why they are doing it. I know where the tradition came from, but I also know where the tradition of engagement rings and weddings came from... In fact, marriage in general as a tradition has a murky, twisted past. So you could argue that if you get married at all you are not a feminist. I don't think it's fair to attack people you don't know and tell them why they can't be feminists.bellofsunshinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-16092264403085719732010-12-06T11:23:31.101-05:002010-12-06T11:23:31.101-05:00I know this is a year later, but it just made me s...I know this is a year later, but it just made me smile a little given what happened with me a few months ago...<br /><br />I did change my last name to my husband's when we married, and kept my "birth" last name as my middle name but use all three regularly--no hyphen, just three names. (It was one of the many anti-feminist hills I just chose not to die on; maybe I'm just not a "good enough" feminist, but I can't fight all the battles at once, and this one I just didn't feel up to. And ten years ago, I was a little less of a feminist.) But I continued to publish under my birth name. <br /><br />So this autumn a piece of music I composed under my birth/publishing name gets some high-ish profile play at my church. With my publishing name--not my husband's--right there in black and white. And suddenly there was all this gossip and murmuring around the church...oh no, Jenn and her husband have split up! What happened??!!...it was unbelievable.<br /><br />It was the first time it occurred to me to actually get angry about this whole subject. <br /><br />I think the "hill to die on" concept is still something that could use a little nuancing from the expressed "how can you be a feminist and take his name" idea of the OP, and I'm surprised no one has yet expressed it--I personally just can't fight 'em all at once. The marriage itself is fairly egalitarian, though it's a work in progress, and I refuse to succumb to all the "wow, you're so lucky to have a husband who _____" --fill in the blank with some ordinary thing related to equal partnered life together; not lucky, just partnered, and if y'all choose to yield to the stereotypes, that's your business. The battles I chose to fight are the more concrete quality-of-life ones, and I sadly abandoned a few of the "conceptual ideals" ones. I'm fairly comfortable with my decisions, and my feminism, like my marriage, is still a work in progress.<br /><br />But my publishing name ain't changing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-1383764889840537032009-10-17T11:41:50.992-04:002009-10-17T11:41:50.992-04:00Thank you, Independent. That's exactly what I&...Thank you, Independent. That's exactly what I've trying to say. Often it's like women are the only ones interested in the relationship. I'm sure that if we stop trying to do all the work in the relationship, men will step up to the plate and do some of the work themselves.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-52285433922295929922009-10-17T11:38:49.696-04:002009-10-17T11:38:49.696-04:00I agree that one problem of us woman is that we ta...I agree that one problem of us woman is that we take on all the work in the relationship in the marriage. We have to stop. Taking the easy way of just keeping your name is fine. Why do things always have to be complicated for us woman and easy for man. Make it easy for yourselfApartment Plannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04639363389736792336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-19647300363002534752009-10-17T11:15:24.488-04:002009-10-17T11:15:24.488-04:00" am sure that having a complicated last name..." am sure that having a complicated last name is not the worst thing in the world, is it? it would suck much more to have to change it back and to change all of your documents if you were to get divorced"<br /><br />-It's interesting that none of those who defend name-changing addressed this issue. The divorce rate is over 60% and growing, so at the time of divorce a woman has to go through additional discomfort and trouble of changing her name back. If you are married more than once, then it turns into a total freak show of changing your name and then changing it back and then going through the process all over again. I know a woman who got married 3 times, so the whole process consisted of 5 name changes. And nobody guarantees this is her last marriage.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-75194246743101819262009-10-17T11:12:19.528-04:002009-10-17T11:12:19.528-04:00With al due respect, Mandie, from what I understan...With al due respect, Mandie, from what I understand here, your husband refused to change his name and refused to participate in the process of figuring out this "problem". He basically signalled that it's your problem to resolve. And you proceeded to resolve it. The two of you had a profoundly different reaction to this whole thing. Your husband seems to feel that he is entitled to keeping his name and everything else is for a woman to figure out.<br /><br />To me, this is a story about how old gender roles are completely reaffirmed in this particular case. And it isn't just about the specific name-changing. It's about the entire scenario of a man making a decision and then sitting there comfortably while a woman bustles around trying to make this decision work.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-71355722953914315272009-10-17T05:34:26.178-04:002009-10-17T05:34:26.178-04:00I took my husband's rare (but simple) German l...I took my husband's rare (but simple) German last name and swapped my very common English/Welsh lastname in as my middle name, to replace "Lee" (Southern family. Need I explain more)? Now, instead of being one of several hundred me's (including at least three other women active in IT/CS alone!), I am the quite possibly the only person in the world with my first name/last name combination.<br /><br />Getting that paperwork through here was a doozy - sure, some German women keep or hyphenate, but there's no such concept as making a maiden name part of your given names. I must say, the civil servant who did our wedding was open-minded about it once I started pressing my point - he called around to some other cities with large numbers of Americans, and failing to get any good answers, just crossed out the old middle name on my name change form and wrote an explanation that so far has got me what I wanted.<br /><br />The unpleasant realities of German naming laws: only one spouse can change their name, you must choose a family name at the time of marriage that any resulting children will have, and that name must be either spouse's last name at time of birth. Therefore, if I had opted to hyphenate, the theoretical children would still just get my husband's name, and I'd still be stuck with a middle name that appears to honor the leader of the Confederate Army. If I kept my last name, things might get awkward at immigration for either me or my husband if we were traveling alone with the (theoretical) kids. I do not feel like battling the patriarchy when trying to get through customs to catch my next flight - or compelling my husband to.<br /><br />To me, the empowering path was going with what I felt would preserve the parts of my personal and cultural identities that I like, along with dumping part that I've felt a bit uneasy about. I had to be persistent dealing with the authorities of a country where I'm a conspicuous (though, as an American, high-status) foreigner as soon as I attempt to speak the language. This experience has made me more confident dealing with German authorities.<br /><br />My husband very wisely said, "it's your name" when I was bouncing my options off him (actually, I got a bit annoyed that he DIDN'T express an opinion). He did reject changing his name, but again, it's his name to do with as he likes. When I was originally discouraged about getting my name change through the way I wanted it and considered "just taking something normal", he pushed me to stick with it, to get the name I felt most suited me.<br /><br />My in-laws, though initially a bit confused (was it hyphenated?), have taken to addressing my mail as Amanda Myoldlastname Mynewlastname, just like my passport and resumes say. Then again, this is a family which encouraged their daughters to go to university in the 1950s, assuming that of course they'd have careers...<br /><br />Leaving my name alone would have been an easier, more passive option.<br /><br />To me, feminism isn't just what you decide to call yourself - it's how and why.Mandienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-71020890731410996482009-10-16T17:36:06.974-04:002009-10-16T17:36:06.974-04:00why can't the children have both the father...why can't the children have both the father's and the mother's last names?<br /><br />in quebec, you are not allowed to change your last name to your husband's and if you want to get an alternative last name you need to apply and state your reasons which might be valid<br /><br />Allison, I am sure that having a complicated last name is not the worst thing in the world, is it? it would suck much more to have to change it back and to change all of your documents if you were to get divorcedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-61034531387150473062009-10-13T16:45:25.219-04:002009-10-13T16:45:25.219-04:00Thank you, Independent. I think your decision on t...Thank you, Independent. I think your decision on the kids' names is great. This goes to show that there are many alternatives to the traditional decisions and many great new traditions that can be started.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-44817269582948294162009-10-13T16:43:07.009-04:002009-10-13T16:43:07.009-04:00I know I am late on this discussion but I have an ...I know I am late on this discussion but I have an opinion. I actually do know european man that have taken their wives names and I think that is good. I did not take my husbands name and we are still fighting about the kids names. I want them to have my name and he wants them to have his name. For now we decided to call the girls by my name and the boys by his. I do know a family that did that and they didn't seem to suffer from that at all. <br /><br /><br />Anyways i just found your blog and I really like it.Apartment Plannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04639363389736792336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-72338635141205617872009-10-09T09:38:17.942-04:002009-10-09T09:38:17.942-04:00Eric: I can't discuss the motivations of some ...Eric: I can't discuss the motivations of some hypothetical men whom I have never seen and whom nobody here has ever seen. When they come to this discussion, we can talk about their motivations. :-)Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-46189360497589596912009-10-09T09:37:03.760-04:002009-10-09T09:37:03.760-04:00"And I'm still confused about how it was ..."And I'm still confused about how it was unacceptable for my mother to take my father's name but acceptable for me to keep his last name as mine."<br /><br />-Dear Allison, you didn't choose the first or the last name that were given you at birth. At that time, you might not even had any feminist consciousness. But today you do. And the conscious act of abandoning your name in favor of a man's signals your own readiness to participate in a patriarchal tradition. It is true that most people's mothers took their husbands' names when they got married. But the new tradition has to start somewhere. I think it makes sense for our generation to start this new tradition of keeping our own names. Why not?<br /><br />As to not liking your name, there must be many men who feel the same about their names as you do about yours. Why don't we hear of them changing their names? What is the reason behind that? I don't understand how anybody can be a feminist and not ask themselves this question.<br /><br />My last name is Slav and is really impossible to pronounce. I know that it also makes me unhireable at many places. But this is a name that has many diplomas and publications attached to it. It's the name that comes up as soon as you do a Google search on the word "Bildungsroman." This is what I made out of my name and it makes me very proud. I don't know what any man could offer me that would substitute all that.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-53291278445057785352009-10-08T19:21:01.914-04:002009-10-08T19:21:01.914-04:00"Great idea. I don't have this problem, t..."Great idea. I don't have this problem, though, because my mother never changed her last name on getting married. Si in my family the tradition of women keeping their names started a generation earlier and I can say from experience that it works great."<br /><br />So is your last name your mother's name or your father's or a combination?<br /><br />And I'm still confused about how it was unacceptable for my mother to take my father's name but acceptable for me to keep his last name as mine.<br /><br />I'd consider taking my (future) husband's name if it were easier to spell and pronounce than my current last name. I spend WAY too much time saying things like "Z as in ZEBRA" and then getting mail with my name spelled with a C and also trying to explain to people that the L sound they hear is E-L and L. And still seeing people write it down wrong.<br /><br />My name isn't even that long! <br /> And picking my mother's maiden name isn't an option since it's even rarer and harder for people to spell when they hear it.Allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11070597592621448032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-6723547116950494022009-10-07T10:22:35.034-04:002009-10-07T10:22:35.034-04:00I feel that alternative reasons have been posted. ...I feel that alternative reasons have been posted. First there was Amanda.<br /><br />Next I mentioned my friend who wants her whole family to have the same name. <br /><br />Lastly I gave the example of men taking their wives names. They must have an alternative reason and I don't see why women couldn't use that reason.Ramzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05721990621454096931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-63373195579795943542009-10-07T09:20:19.954-04:002009-10-07T09:20:19.954-04:00"BUT her last name is (usually) her father..."BUT her last name is (usually) her father's name, so it should follow that a woman's last name, whether it's her family last name or married last name, marks her as nothing more than property of a man."<br /><br />-The new traditions have to start somewhere. Why not with us? If you realize that this tradition is wrong and sexist, why perpetuate it?<br /><br />"Wouldn't the Real True Feminist thing for a woman to do is change her last name (or even her full name if her father picked out her first name) as soon as she was able?"<br /><br />-Great idea. I don't have this problem, though, because my mother never changed her last name on getting married. Si in my family the tradition of women keeping their names started a generation earlier and I can say from experience that it works great.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-12576935101511418912009-10-07T09:17:46.657-04:002009-10-07T09:17:46.657-04:00"But to dismiss outright the possibility of a..."But to dismiss outright the possibility of alternative reasoning seems to be going to far."<br /><br />-Eric, nobody has offered any alternative reasoning on the subject, so you can't say I dismissed what wasn't offered in the first place. Somebody might want to change their name because they don't like it, that's true. But the only thing that makes sense in this case is to take a name of some family member (mother, grandmother, etc.) It makes no sense whatsoever to take the name of some guy who has many chances of ending up being just a temporary person in your life. I'm sure you know what the divorce rate is.<br /><br />So while there might be other reasons to change your name, nobody has offered me an example of any other reason to change your name TO A MAN'S.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-4611512259704391802009-10-06T17:37:11.554-04:002009-10-06T17:37:11.554-04:00I think I double posted my comment and it may have...I think I double posted my comment and it may have looked like I was spammnig.<br /><br />I wasn't but I do need some clarification.<br /><br />You stated that a woman isn't a feminist if she takes her husband's name. And that a woman taking her husband's name it means that is labeling herself as merely property of her husband. <br /><br />A woman should keep her last name. BUT her last name is (usually) her father's name, so it should follow that a woman's last name, whether it's her family last name or married last name, marks her as nothing more than property of a man.<br /><br />Because you say that my mother became nothing more than my father's property when she married him and took his name. So if it's unacceptable for my mother to take his name why is it acceptable for me to continue to use his last name?<br /><br />Wouldn't the Real True Feminist thing for a woman to do is change her last name (or even her full name if her father picked out her first name) as soon as she was able? Otherwise she's just walking around as property of her father.Allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11070597592621448032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-10033727513227491912009-10-06T17:11:46.253-04:002009-10-06T17:11:46.253-04:00Well Amanda posted what she at least considers suc...Well Amanda posted what she at least considers such a reason. <br /><br />In addition I do know someone in my life who is at least considering changing her name. And to be sure she's conflicted about it and I have no idea what she will end up doing. But in talking with her sexism hasn't been the reason for most of the conflict, at least from her perspective. She and her fiance both like their names and the family they represent and she wants the family they become to have a singular name.<br /><br />You don't have to agree with people like Amanda or my friend but you seem awfully dismissive. <br /><br />I guess it seems to me that while to be certain when dealing with something so steeped in a history of misogyny and ingrained into our culture we shouldn't always take people at their word for why they are doing something. But to dismiss outright the possibility of alternative reasoning seems to be going to far.<br /><br />I guess another way of looking at it is that some men take their wives name upon being married. A very small amount sure but they exist. Since they weren't raised to believe they should or had to give up their name they must have some sort of other reason. And I see no reason to think it's not possible for women to have the same alternative reason.<br /><br />Once again I'm not saying this happens very often if at all.Ramzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05721990621454096931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-10678708494003716412009-10-06T16:43:19.316-04:002009-10-06T16:43:19.316-04:00"Still I feel like saying that all cases are ..."Still I feel like saying that all cases are the same isn't the approach to viewing the world we should try to adopt. I mean instead of saying saying that all women change their names because of sexism its easy to say that most or the vast majority or something like that. I guess maybe its a semantic quibble but I dislike seeing labels applied to broad groups without regard for possible exceptions."<br /><br />-I have never met such an "exception". Have you? Can you think of any other reason where a woman changes her name to a man's that are NOT sexist? I can't think of any. I don't think that anybody would do something like that in a sexism-free world.<br /><br />But if you can suggest such an "exceptional" reason for a name change, I'd be happy to hear about it.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.com