tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post3688197253124250510..comments2023-10-08T05:00:23.559-04:00Comments on Clarissa's Blog: Russian Speaking Immigrants, Part IIClarissahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-14113735515299632242009-07-12T18:03:02.427-04:002009-07-12T18:03:02.427-04:00At any rate, I liked some of the vadlo scientist c...At any rate, I liked some of the vadlo <a href="http://vadlo.com/cartoons.php?id=72" rel="nofollow">scientist cartoons</a>!Tuckernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-3115189981435164322009-07-07T10:55:12.753-04:002009-07-07T10:55:12.753-04:00In this particular case I agree with you: the comm...In this particular case I agree with you: the communication between strangers in the streets is, on average, more friendly. But only on average... Otherwise you would not be able to discuss immigrants who are incredibly surprised by encountering rudeness. :) :)<br />V.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-7208922478300041742009-07-06T15:41:48.168-04:002009-07-06T15:41:48.168-04:00I'm talking more about some general, basic rul...I'm talking more about some general, basic rules of behavior and worldview. Example: do you notice how our people love making nasty comments? It's perfectly acceptable to make rude unpleasant remarks about somebody's appearance, clothing, or way of life. Even if it's somebody you barely know. North Americans, on the other hand, go out of their way to find nice things to say to you.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-26479258099738289542009-07-06T15:09:23.981-04:002009-07-06T15:09:23.981-04:00---because I just didn't get the people around...---because I just didn't get the people around me. It sounds weird but it does happen. <br /><br />I can understand very well how something like that can happen. I still do not get most people back home. Including, actually, the people from the academic environment I grew up in. They are so from some different word. <br /><br />But this is also true about most people in any country. I did not feel much affinity with the local Americans of my university town. I had more in common with other East-Europeans or even with Taiwanese... <br />I think that with age and effort person just builds his/her own environment in such way that like-minded people get closer, and others are kept at some distance. In my opinion it comes with growing up and getting more control over one's life, and immigrating may be just a coincidence. Or, maybe, it helps one understand which parts of like-mindedness are a superficial result of growing up in similar environment (as in "we, Ukrainians, do this", "we Russians from Estonia, believe that", etc) and which are basic values transcending treats resulting from particular environment.<br /><br />V.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-62348516705728772462009-07-06T12:25:20.042-04:002009-07-06T12:25:20.042-04:00"And the major part of the disappointment is ..."And the major part of the disappointment is exactly because they find that more money did not solve their problems..."<br /><br />-Couldn't agree more. No money is worth living in a place that feels totally alien to you.<br /><br />"But how much of that "not for you" is caused by just getting used to life in North America?"<br /><br />-Nah, I knew it was not for me years and years before I left. I spent the first 22 years of my life in aa state of total bewilderment because I just didn't get the people around me. It sounds weird but it does happen. So I totally understand how the immigrants must feel.<br /><br />"I actually would go back to my country if there was a real chance to participate in changing something significant. Run for Parliament as independent"<br /><br />-I got hopeful about my country with the Orange Revolution. I had been so sure nothing like that would ever be possible. Still, I wouldn't go back. I've had as much bewilderment as I can stand for one lifetime. :-)Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-45160839145529331152009-07-06T12:01:14.803-04:002009-07-06T12:01:14.803-04:00The most impressive reason for immigration I heard...The most impressive reason for immigration I heard was from an Ukrainian ex-criminal (who also looked as a stereotypical criminal, by the way) - "when my gang "brothers" became members of the Parliament, I knew I had to leave..." :(<br /><br />----Only if the person in question values money above all else. <br /><br />But the majority of the immigrants are like that, why deny it?.. And the major part of the disappointment is exactly because they find that more money did not solve their problems...<br /><br />---They couldn't pay me enough to go back to my country. Not because it's a bad place but just because it's not for me.<br /><br />But how much of that "not for you" is caused by just getting used to life in North America? <br /><br />I actually would go back to my country if there was a real chance to participate in changing something significant. Run for Parliament as independent... :)<br /><br />V.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-48056977750360885912009-07-06T11:42:54.927-04:002009-07-06T11:42:54.927-04:00"Someone asked me if I got a culture shock af..."Someone asked me if I got a culture shock after first visit to the US supermarket... "<br /><br />-I visited a workshop on culture shock once and realized that while I had no culture shock after moving from Ukraine to Canada, I had a huge culture shock when I moved from Montreal to New Haven, CT. And not because of the supermarkets. :-)<br /><br />This idea that all immigrants come here to make their lives better economically is very misguided. I know that I will in all probability never achieve the same level of economic well-being here that I had back in Ukraine in my eraly twenties. And I knew it when I emigrated but it made no difference to me. <br /><br />"I can very well imagine that some citizen of Moscow, who's income is not less than the US average, does not see any reason to like it in the US"<br /><br />-Only if the person in question values money above all else. They couldn't pay me enough to go back to my country. Not because it's a bad place but just because it's not for me.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-59403632329752907432009-07-06T11:21:28.299-04:002009-07-06T11:21:28.299-04:00I can very well imagine that some citizen of Mosco...I can very well imagine that some citizen of Moscow, who's income is not less than the US average, does not see any reason to like it in the US. After all, many things are organized differently in the US, and for some it may be difficult to adapt. Moving to the US is really beneficial either for people who want to relatively single-mindedly pursue their careers (scientists, high-tech, finance, maybe something I have forgotten; anyway, US system provides higher upward mobility for talented and hard-working people who would be stuck in lower-level positions in the more meritocratic societies) or for somebody from very poor countries, or countries with some kind of a dictatorship.<br /><br />And the woman from your example was in the US on a visit, so technically her example does not apply to the discussion about immigrants. I actually see it as an example of a person who sees half-empty glass where others could see half-full (even if one does not like some country "on average", there are still a lot of interesting things if one looks for them)... Whether Russians are more inclined to see half-empty glass everywhere, regardless of any immigration, is interesting, but different subject.<br /><br />v.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-28846661910221793622009-07-06T09:52:19.405-04:002009-07-06T09:52:19.405-04:00"one of the first things some ex-Soviets aske..."one of the first things some ex-Soviets asked me when I arrived to the US was (even in the university town, actually) when am I going to start my green card process"<br /><br />-I keep seeing other things for some reason. Yesterday, for example, I go outside. There is a young woman sitting on the stoop, speaking on her cell phone (in Russian). Thee gist of her speech was how much she hates being in America (on a visit) and how she dreams about going back to Russia and never leaving again.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-63535989068904403522009-07-06T09:50:21.861-04:002009-07-06T09:50:21.861-04:00Thank you, guys. :-)Thank you, guys. :-)Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-73899633179499548292009-07-04T12:13:51.952-04:002009-07-04T12:13:51.952-04:00I got much larger culture shock from the fact ther...I got much larger culture shock from the fact there were about 50 churches in that university town of 50-70 thousand people... and one church was called "Church of Jesus Christ, Scientist"...<br />V.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-79392272435619368332009-07-04T12:06:55.214-04:002009-07-04T12:06:55.214-04:00I guess how one sees ex-Soviet immigrants (or any ...I guess how one sees ex-Soviet immigrants (or any other immigrants for that matter) is largely dependent on one's environment. When I moved to the US as a postdoc I lived in a university town of 50-70 thousand people. All ex-soviets there were one way or another related to the university, and the average-Russian-immigrant-as-I saw-them was quite different from what you describe. And outside of that science community I interacted mostly with high-tech-, IT-, etc related community... Not the immigrants who immigrated first and looked for job later... Later, when I moved to a large city, I met more immigrants from your post... My point is, I guess, that one should not make too far-reaching generalizations based on one's personal experience. Which actually applies both to you and to your opponents here.<br /><br />Speaking of how widespread the wish to move to the US is among the post-Soviets - I remember that I found it very weird when one of the first things some ex-Soviets asked me when I arrived to the US was (even in the university town, actually) when am I going to start my green card process. What the heck? It was just my second or third day in the US (it was some welcoming party), how would I know if I want to live in a country permanently?.. But then I told myself that those people moved earlier than me, that the situation was much worse for them and that they are more thankful to US for giving them opportunities...<br /><br />Life in the post-Soviet countries evolved pretty quickly. Someone asked me if I got a culture shock after first visit to the US supermarket... Why? So what if the supermarket is two times larger than at home?..<br /><br />V.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-22036336263542426952009-07-03T12:11:30.958-04:002009-07-03T12:11:30.958-04:00Great post, Clarissa. I encourage you to write chr...Great post, Clarissa. I encourage you to write chronicles!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3164556861454970487.post-32008022422974629962009-07-03T11:37:42.490-04:002009-07-03T11:37:42.490-04:00Funny post.Funny post.Nataleenoreply@blogger.com