In all discussions about Israel, what bothers me the most is many people's desire to forget that what's going on in that country is a result of millenia of history. What's happening in Israel today is not the result of today's policies, or of what took place on May 14, 1948. We cannot understand Israel without keeping in mind at all times the millenial history of anti-semitism and persecutions of Jews.For years, I've been very unhappy with the way Isarel is discussed in liberal circles. I hate the "yeah-sure-the-Holocaust-happened-but-that's-not-the-point" attitude. I hate the ease with which some journalists churn out miles of articles on Israel without mentioning the word "anti-semitism" once. I'm disgusted with how the conservatives adopted as their own the "we-love-Israel" routine. And I'm annoyed that the liberals let them do that and can only respond with an equally inane "and-we-love-the-Palestinians" agenda.
I hate it when politicians pretend that "the two-state solution" will stop the terrorism instead of realizing that the day the Palestinians receive their well-deserved sovereignty the number of terror attacks against Israel will grow exponentially. I'm annoyed beyond belief with literary critics who - instead of doing their job of analyzing works of literature - go to Isarel to throw rocks at Israeli soldiers. I find it unbelievable that people would actually expect the leaders of an organization that accuses the Israelis of "attempting to "destroy" the young generation by distributing libido-boosting chewing gum in the Gaza area" will walk peacefully into the sunset after they are granted their independence.
20 comments:
Anti-semitism is still pretty much everywhere, you are right. The problem with the cohabitation of Israelis and Palestinians cannot be solved with a two states solution, once again I agree. In my view, that solution could not erase the discrepancies between the living conditions of the Israelis and the Palestinians, which is the real problem. But then, my knowledge of the topic is limited.
Below are other signs of my ignorance, please illuminate me:
First, regarding the conservative appropriation of the "we-love-Israel" routine, vis-à-vis the liberal "we-love-everyone" routine, how about the reverse side of this: the israelis's appropriation of the "we-love-conservative-policies" routine. In Canada, the Canadian Jewish Congress recently invited the leaders of all the major political parties of the country. While their reception of Stephen Harper (right) was favourable, their reception of Michael Ignatieff (right with shades of centre?, centre-right?, centre-centre right? centre?) was not that warm. And it is pointless to mention that the Congress reception of poor Jack Layton (left) was even worse, albeit he remembered the traditional strong ties between the Jewish community and the left in Canada. Of course the congress loves the conservatives downright pro-israeli stances, but where can we listen to the liberal Jews? Not just isolated, personnal opinions of my Liberal and not-so-observant Jewish friends, but from, say, a Jewish media outlet. This is not a rhetorical question.
Second, who are these literary critics who threw rocks at Israeli soldiers? This is as crazy a story as the libidinal boosting chewing gum. Maybe crazier. Literary critics are laze creatures, you know?
Third, and somehow related, what do you think of "Breaking the Silence"? Have you heard about it?
Ol.
I guess it is very important that before we proceed further we define what "antisemitism" is. Because I have encountered very wide and all-encompassing definitions. Namely, during the war in Lebanon couple of years ago there was an article in Montreal Gazette where it was suggested that ANY criticism of Israel and its policies should be considered antisemitism... The article caused quite a long debate...
I also have visited the Opinion Forum, which sometimes inspires you, and read the most recent story on Israel and on whether Obama will betray it or not. Some Arab guy left a comment there, which was a typical point of view of his side... I would expect somebody would argue with the guy meaningfully, attracting his attention to some mistakes at the base of his logical construct... But no, some Brian guy answered him in a "who the hell are you, nobody needs you, nobody loves you, you are not democratic enough, and we brought you culture, money, oil industry and the internet you are using to complain here" kind of way. Which immediately reminded me of what Russia is trying to tell all its neighbors, and what we rightly despise.
And yes, I completely agree with you that establishing two separate states will not automatically stop terrorism. I would even go further and claim that even magically bringing the living standards of the Arabs to the same level as those of the Jews will not stop terrorism. Because it is not about the material things only, it went too far, it is about religion, prestige, blood vengeance and many other things. Osama bin Laden is not a displaced Palestinian or their descendant, but an extremely wealthy Saudi noble...
That said, do you see any better solution than the two states?
V.
She means Edward Said. Here is his picture as he was throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Edward_Said_thowing_a_stone_at_Israeli_soldiers.jpg
Dear Oli:
If you are suggesting that the Republicans "love" Israel because of its conservative policies (which I don't think is true), that at least would be reasonable. How reasonable is it, though, that liberals love Hamas? Is Hamas going to be more liberal than the Israelis?
I'm not a huge fan of Canadian Jewish Congress (even though they've had my father as an invited speaker). But I guess the reason why they like Harper more than Layton is because they know they don't have a lot to expect from him in their favor.
By rock-throwing literary critics I meant Edward Said whom I stopped respecting the second I heard the story. Why do my favorite critics always do this to me? :-)
As to "Breaking the Silence", of course the war is horrible. Didn't we know this already, though? This war, any war is a horrible,horrible thing and the ones who suffer the most are always civilians. And women more than men.
As to the liberal Jewish news outlets, I can always suggest my blog. :-) It's only half-Jewish, of course, but we are going in the right direction here, I think. :-)
Dear V.:
I remember that debate in the Gazette. :-) Thank god, I'm not the Gazette, so my definition of antisemitism is a little less encompassing. Antisemitism is hatred towards Jews just because they are Jews. Saying "we will not rest until every Jew is destroyed" is antisemitism. Pretending that the people who said it didn't say it, didn't mean it, changed their mind and will now be nice is also antisemitism.
As for the Opinion Forum, I couldn't continue taking part in that discussion because their site crashes 8 times out of 10 when i try to leave a message.
(Have you seen my discussion with Brian about Canadian healthcare? I think it's hilarious. Brian and I will never agree on anything, so don't lay your critique of his point of view at my door :-))
As far as I remember, the Arab person you quote was saying that we need to have compassion towards the plight of the Palestinians. So I have compassion. I'm sitting here feeling sorry for the Palestinians, the Israelis, and a bunch of other people. How is this helping anybody?
As Zizek says in "Violence" we have to find a way to look at certain things dispassionately, even though it's hard. Otherwise, we will never be able to analyze them logically.
"That said, do you see any better solution than the two states?"
-The solution to anti-semitism? There are people in that region (and everywhere else for that matter) who say that they will not rest until every Jew in the world is destroyed. There are many Muslim staates surrounding Israel. The problem isn't solved. Why would it be with adding another Muslim state?
(Sorry for leaving so many comments in a row. I keep getting interrupted by emails from the secretary of my new department who keeps forgetting things.)
Natalee: thank you for the picture!! With your permission, I will include it into the body of the post.
Ohhhh Said. Now I vaguely remember that. I completely repressed that image. Thanks Natalee/Clarissa!
Liberals really like Hamas? I mean, really? Where have I been in the last years!!!
Ol.
---There are many Muslim states surrounding Israel. The problem isn't solved. Why would it be with adding another Muslim state?
Israel's problems will not be solved by that. But Israel is not the only one having problems in that part of the world. Some problems of the Palestinians should be solved even if that will not benefit Israel. They should have their own state because they are entitled to their state, not because it allegedly will help stop terrorist attacks against Israel. I hope you will not interpret the latter statement as antisemitic, I am just trying to be dispassionate both ways.
---Have you seen my discussion with Brian about Canadian healthcare? I think it's hilarious. Brian and I will never agree on anything, so don't lay your critique of his point of view at my door :-)
I do not consider you responsible for Brian's point of view on Israel or Arabs. You are only responsible for attracting my attention to that forum. :) I brought it up as an example of a line of argument totally useless and even counterproductive for reducing antisemitism or any problems of the Middle East.
I've seen that healthcare discussion, but I did not pay attention with whom you were arguing... My wife works with MRI, so she knows very well how long the waiting times for MRI are in Canada. Thus, on that particular issue you were wrong. :) Sorry for the off-topic.
V.
Ol, who do you think will come to power in Palestine the second they are granted the independence? Let's be honest that promoting the two-state solution is the same as promoting Hamas's rise to power in Palestine.
I wiss I could repress as easily as you. My encounter with Terry Eagleton's uninspiring personal life is still awaiting repression in the depths of my psyche. :-)
"They should have their own state because they are entitled to their state, not because it allegedly will help stop terrorist attacks against Israel. I hope you will not interpret the latter statement as antisemitic"
-I don't think it's an antisemitic sentiment at all. I think that the supporters of the two-state system, though, need to acknowledge that by supporting this solution they support the growth of terror attacks against Israel and the rise of Hamas to power.
" My wife works with MRI, so she knows very well how long the waiting times for MRI are in Canada. Thus, on that particular issue you were wrong."
-The only thing I know is that my father got several MRIs as soon as he needed them. In the Canadian system, you can't just give MRIs to everybody who might decide to request them, or people will start requesting one every single day.
---I don't think it's an antisemitic sentiment at all. I think that the supporters of the two-state system, though, need to acknowledge that by supporting this solution they support the growth of terror attacks against Israel and the rise of Hamas to power.
I acknowledge all that. But what's the alternative? I think it is no secret that one can wait till the end of time before Palestinians democratically elect an Israeli-friendly government. For a while, Israel will have to bear with the unfriendly one. As you yourself said in different context - one more unfriendly Muslim neighbor, one less... If it does not matter, it should not matter both ways...
---In the Canadian system, you can't just give MRIs to everybody who might decide to request them, or people will start requesting one every single day.
Very comforting position - Big Brother (in this case - Canadian health-care system) knows best, and those who disagree are just capricious hypochondriacs... Only problem - this is not the reality.
V.
The person who finds the alternative will truly deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. :-) All I want is for people who whine about bad, horrible Israel (not you, of course, but rather journalists like Naomi Klein) to face the reality of what they are promoting.
"Very comforting position - Big Brother (in this case - Canadian health-care system) knows best, and those who disagree are just capricious hypochondriacs... Only problem - this is not the reality."
-I only know things that I experienced first-hand. I never visit doctors myself but the kind of medical care my father received last year for free was amazing. I don't know who you have to be in the US to be able to afford anything like that. And since I've experienced it, I have to appreciate it. I'm terrified when I imagined what would have happened to him if he lived in the US and got sick.
By the way, "distributing libido-boosting chewing gum" is an amazingly ingenious act of sabotage against any traditional society. :) Israelis should really consider adopting the idea. Obviously, given the history of accusations against Israelis, the Palestinians are very unlikely to sue them for copyright infringement. :) :)
V.
My friend, if this gum existed, who would be stupid enough to give it away? :-)
Your prejudice against psychopharmacology prevents you from knowing it exists :) :) :)
V.
Hamas to female lawyers: Wear headscarf
-- "'Showing a woman's hair is forbidden,' the Hamas-appointed Halabi told The Associated Press. 'We will not allow people to corrupt morals. This [dress code] will improve work in the courts.'"
-- "Palestinian female journalist Asma al-Ghul... "said that many Palestinian women have noticed the presence of the police officers at the beaches and other sites"
-- "She said that the talk in the Gaza Strip these days was about Hamas's intention to impose the hijab on all female school children from first to 12th grade."
Responsible for Equality And Liberty organization (R.E.A.L.)
-- website:
http://www.realcourage.org/
-- contact:
realpublic@earthlink.net
Additional Reports on War on Women can be found at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waronwomen/
http://www.realcourage.org/category/womens-rights/
Thank you, Greenconsciousness! Now we are going to hear, of course, how hijab is so very liberating.
I WAS HOPING TO CUT THROUGH THE discussion of the patriarchal ARGUMENTS which DOMINATE US POLITICAL DISCOURSE.oops the caps just go on as if the computer is connected to my mind. Women in the US no longer have independent thought on a feminist foreign policy. Condi Rice had it going in the state dept but Hillary gutted the Office of International Women's Issues and killed the programs for Muslim women. Her lackeys say they are going to make them more comprehensive but all we have so far is talk.
Women should not waste time with male arguments. Radical feminists should always ask them self - what is better for women in this situation. We must guard against getting sucked into the labyrinth of male arguments and ask what we would want if we were living on either side of the wall. What women need is freedom. The US must pull foreign aid from social groups that hold women as property. I could go on but I know you know. We do not have to get anywhere near their arguments or their proposed solutions -- they are no more relevant than their phony medical plans when the people know we need single payer, those corporate hogs tell as we need more insurance. P--- on their arguments and resulting oppressive non solutions. Just ask, what would I want - what is best for women, children, animals, the earth? The answer usually has nothing relevant to the male ongoing discussion which is usually just a cover for things which are not disclosed. That is why they never solve any problems - because they are lying - not actually talking.
So why are women following that discussion arguing about two state - one state -- we might as well just make plans for our extinction. Who wants to live under Sharia? No hands in the air? Then why are we saying it is OK for women in Gaza?
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