Monday, April 18, 2011

How to Meet Women If You Are a Nice Guy?

The debate between pick-up artists, their detractors and the detractors of their detractors rages on. My only contribution to the issue of how to meet men (or women) is that if you are asking this question, you are in trouble. Unless you change your entire way of seeing people of the gender you like, you aren't going to be very happy in your personal life. You don't need to meet women (or men.) Women and men don't want somebody who is looking just for anybody. Individuals are looking for somebody who wants them. Not men or women in general but them, as a person, as a unique human being. 

There are no magic words, lines or actions that will get this non-existent, imaginary category of women (or men) to like the person who has mastered them well. That's simply not how it works. People have a tendency to be different and even women (and men) are people. What one person finds adorable, another person hates. 

So what do you do if you are a nice, shy, quiet guy who thinks he has met or seen a girl he likes? My advice is that at most you need to say "hi." And let things happen from there. If she doesn't respond, she doesn't like you. So just let it go and move on. If you believe that you need to make her like you, prove that you are worthy of attention, or do things to attract her, congratulations, you are a misogynist. The idea that women need to be convinced to like a guy or to be with him is deeply misogynistic. Believe me, women are perfectly capable of knowing whom they do or don't want. If a woman likes you, she will make it known to you very clearly. I have seen extremely shy, nerdy women go after guys they liked with a steely determination of fighter pilots. 

The piece of advice that gets reiterated most often when people discuss this subject is that you need to be confident and let go of your insecurities to get women (men) to like you. This is very stupid advice, my friends. Some folks do like confident - and sometimes even overconfident - people. Many women (men), however, don't. You cannot predict or control anybody's personal preferences. This is sad news for a culture that believes everything can be controlled through information gleaned from self-help books, talk shows and the Internet. Sexual attraction, however, cannot be controlled. Either a person finds you desirable or, s/he doesn't. Courting your paramour will only give you the dubious honor of being tolerated because nothing better came along. A person who likes you will not need to be persuaded, courted, or convinced.


Pagan Topologist said...

I don't agree with you on this. For many years, I carefully avoided interacting with women I found attractive for fear that they would get angry. I only paid attention to women I was not particularly attracted to, since they were non-threatening. If I had found something like Ross Jefferies' courses when I was younger, it might not have taken me until the age of 65 to find a spouse I really was in tune with. I was single and unable to find anyone for about thirty years. I could only get dates with women who wanted to abuse me emotionally, and then only very rarely.

Pagan Topologist said...

Of course, a big part of this was the indoctrination I got in my teen years that girls were never attracted to boys the way boys were to girls, and that they would always be offended by any show of interest with sexual overtones.

Anonymous said...

I have a lot of ideas regarding this topic, but I’ll comment just on this:

“You cannot predict or control anybody's personal preferences.” “Sexual attraction, however, cannot be controlled. Either a person finds you desirable or, s/he doesn't.” That’s certainly true.

Once you like or dislike a person there’s really very little that can be done to change a person’s first impression. However, once a person likes another person, there’s a long way from there to having a cup of coffee with him/her. I think this process can be strongly influenced.

There are scientific studies regarding this subject where an understanding of the way humans take decisions could make someone capable of influencing the decisions of another person once the first person has made an initial decision.


KT said...

Nice post :) I love it.
But I couldn't resist this edit:

"If you believe that you need to make her like you, prove that you are worthy of attention, or do things to attract her, congratulations, you are a poet."

See if you can spot the word I changed :).

Anonymous said...

Great post!

Anonymous said...

Why do you think it is they say you must get to know someone before you can know whether you are attracted to them or not? Why do they say people can grow on you?

"Give him a chance"
"Wait to make sure"

PT, you can totally ask people point blank. Just don't wheedle, weasel, etc. It's offensive to be pressured or to have someone try to manipulate you, but it's not offensive to be hit on straight up.

Clarissa said...

"Why do you think it is they say you must get to know someone before you can know whether you are attracted to them or not? Why do they say people can grow on you?"

-I think for the same reason as they exhort women to settle for whomever is around and not to look for anybody too perfect. :-)

Pagan Topologist said...

I am talking about what I lived through decades ago. As I noted above, a couple of years ago, at age 65, I finally got myself into a healthy relationship.

I have seen people change their minds about people quite some time after they first meet, so I don't think this process is as instantaneous as Clarissa argues here.

Clarissa said...

I'm very glad that you feel happy now.

I can't imagine how the existence of sexual attraction or lack thereof can be dealt with by changing one's mind.

Anonymous said...

Well, I guess something can happen so you see a different side of someone. I once read and was fascinated by a short story by an Indian writer, where the narrator was in an arranged marriage and he and his wife were both miserable since it was arranged, they were both doing their duty for the family and so on by being married. Then events bring out a side of the wife the narrator hadn't known was there, and he gets interested; he starts acting interested and shares sides of himself he hadn't, and she is interested, so it turns into a happy love story.

Clarissa said...

This makes sexual desire sound like a reward for good behavior. :-)

You can see all the wonderful sides of somebody in the world but none of that is likely to generate sexual desire out of nothing. If only we desired people because of their nice personal qualities, the world would be a very different place. However, that's not how it works at all.

Pagan Topologist said...

In my own case, sexual desire and attraction develop after I have known someone for a while. It is unusual when I first meet someone. So it changes over time. I have always thought this was the way most people really are wired, but maybe I am unusual.

Dame Eleanor Hull said...

It seems to me that the Pagan Topologist's first comment actually supports Clarissa's point. If you don't interact with people as people---that is, your own real self as well as seeing the person you're attracted to as an individual---then of course nothing good will come of it. And I'm one of the Clarissa-types; either the attraction is there or it isn't. What I find out over time is whether I like the man enough to act on the attraction.

Anonymous said...

In the Indian story it was that the couple are in these prescribed roles and are always acting. Finally something unexpected happens, so they have to act spontaneously. That is when they each find out what the other person is really like. They've been showing their nice personal qualities all along, but what it takes is dropping the masks. That could go badly, too, but in the story it doesn't.

Clarissa said...

But what do anybody's true personality have to do with sexual desire? Desire is not about personality.

I don't get this at all. You can get to be friends this way. Or really fantastic roommates. Other than that, I don't see what this has to do with romantic relationships.

Pagan Topologist said...

I suppose you and I are wired differently then, Clarissa. When I first met my wife, I found her to be pleasant but did not have a strong sexual attraction to her. Now, I feel really strong attraction to her and intense passion. It took a year or so to develop.