Sunday, October 4, 2009

Feminism and Taking a Man's Name

It often happens that you see the following query in the feminist blogosphere: "Can I still be feminist and take my husband's last name?" Of course, nobody can prevent you from being a traditional housewife, dedicating your life to shopping and washing male underwear, reading only "Ladies Home Journal", watching nothing but soaps and 'The Bachelor", vote for Sarah Palin and still insisting that you are feminist. In my book, however, adopting your husband's last name demonstrates that you are anything but a feminist.

Many people today identify with feminism (or rather, its toothless third-wave version) because it approves of anything they do, as long as it is their "choice." They believe that it's ok to consider yourself a feminist and still mark yourself publicly as some random guy's possession. They march through life passing themselves from their father to a husband to the next husband, changing their identification every single time. This strategy is, of course, unavailable to women who make their own name mean something. If you have several diplomas, articles and books published under your own name, it might be hard for you to ditch it all in favor of showing to the world how easy it is to transfer your identity into somebody's possession.

The argument you hear most often from quasi-feminist name-changers is that there is no difference between having one  male name (your father's) and another (your husband's). Of course, it never occurs to them that if they are so set on name-changing, they could always adopt their mother's, grandmother's or great-grandmother's name. They could also start the tradition of being the first woman in their family who values her own name and doesn't ditch it in favor of some guy.

The idea that a woman needs to change her last name when her father gives her away in marriage comes from the millenia of women being seen as things, object, possessions. You can't be a feminist and not be bothered by this profoundly patriarchal tradition. You can't be a feminist and still value yourself so little that you would be willing to abandon even your name to a man. You cannot hope to build an equal relationship with a person whose very name (and the entire family history it carries with it) is automatically deemed so much more important than yours just because of your gender.

55 comments:

Natalee said...

I agree. The word feminism should mean something. If you live a patriarchal way of life, don't engage in any political activism and support the status quo with everything you do, then you are NOT a feminist.

Sue said...

If a couple is planning to have children the only thing that makes sense is for everybody to have the same last name. This is often the reason why women change their last name to their husband's. It doesn't have to be some anti-feminist conspiracy. It just makes sense, that's all.

Clarissa said...

First of all, it's not "the only thing that makes sense." But even if it were, flip a coin to decide whose name it's going to be. The assumption that a woman should automatically be the one to give up her name is what I consider to be non-feminist.

Anonymous said...

I have to agree with Sue... when you have kids, from a practical stand point, it is much easier for the whole family to be on the same last name.. but you are right, it does not have to be the male's last name.. I have a friend, whose whole family changed their last name to a grandmother's name.. he, his wife and their child..

Clarissa said...

We don't have the same last name in my family. Never had any problems with that. Could you list some practical issues that could arise as a result of people having different last names?

I know that in Quebec, for example, a woman cannot ditch her last name in favor of her husband's. And nobody seems to have any problems, practical or otherwise.

Anonymous said...

OMG! I'm so cool and feministy b/c I'm not gonna succumb to the patriarchy and take my husband's last name!

Dude, why even get married?

Also, I'd forgotten how entertaining your blog could be, I'm glad you've gone back to constantly plugging it on that other hilarious feminist website.

Anonymous said...

I'm all for both partners creating a new family name!

I'd like to ditch my last name, which I inherited from my father's adoption...it binds me to half of my family, but has no other valuable meaning to me. It's just another reminder of patriarchy.

However, I just graduated and really want my name to be the same as on my diploma. I wonder if I can get that changed? It is probably too late.

Clarissa said...

Ooh, my own personal troll is back. :-) Welcome back, buddy. Are you going to tell us once again about going where the clients are AT? I can't wait! :-)

Clarissa said...

I'm sorry, I meant the previous Anon, the one with OMG, etc.

Anonymous said...

"Dude, why even get married?"

Was the only reason you got married to change your name? You must have one ugly last name to go to all that trouble.

Clarissa said...

I don't think that's what my dear troll was suggesting. :-) The only point the troll was trying to make is how much s/he hates me. :-) It's not like my actual point of view matters here, you know.

feministify@yahoo.com said...

as far as the kids issue- hyphenation. or come up w/ a one word last name that is made up of both partners. changing patriarchal norms is okay and should not be feared.

Natalee said...

Great idea, actually. The people who keep saying that it's so tough to avoid patriarchal traditions haven't even tried!

Natalee said...

Clarissa, why do you think it's the same weirdo?

Clarissa said...

Natalee, realistically, I don't think my blog is so important (yet) that I'd have TWO of my own trolls. :-)

recorta said...

"It just makes sense" is possibly the worst, most unthinking response ever, not just to this issue, but to a million others! One could just as easily try and say, "It just makes sense to never ever ever divorce!" - after all, it's sort of burdensome for children to explain to new acquaintances half-siblings, mother's boyfriends, step-mothers, etc. Or, you know, not. Frankly, when I was young, I had no qualms answering "It's complicated" when people asked me where I lived (I lived more or less equally between my two parents, who lived in different towns). Rather that than two unhappy parents stuck together for 60 years!

Sue, there's nothing wrong or scary about complicated answers, or hyphenated names, for that matter. Indeed, recently, a friend of mine got married, and they amalgamated their two last names (i.e. Stanfield + Smith = Stanith).

I definitely think this is something of a self-esteem issue. Women who particularly value their personal achievements are much more resistant to changing their name; having publications as an academic is a common circumstance that I've come across, as Clarissa mentions. In fact, it's becoming so increasingly common, that the actress Samantha Janus made news when she decided to take her husband's name recently!

Allison said...

I've always thought it was a woman's actions and beliefs that made her a feminist when really it's just her name.

Clarissa said...

Taking somebody's name is an action. Thinking that it's ok to give up your name as less important than a man's is a belief.

Anonymous said...

It isn't about a name, Allison. It is about what it symbolizes. You either see yourself as an object that belongs to a man or you don't. And yes, that is a belief and an action that is either feminist or not.

Clarissa said...

What feminist actions and beliefs can you expect from someone who sees herself as a lesser human being because of her gender? What feminist actions and beliefs can come out of such a basic subservience to a man? What kind of feminism is it that grows out of such a profound disrespect for your very identity?

And once you have marked yourself as this man's property, what kind of equality can you expect in this relationship?

Anonymous said...

Oh, oh, you tried to suggest I have an ugly last name! That cut me deep, real deep.

Not married yet!

Awww, and I don't hate you! I just think you're funny, lol.

Joy-Mari Cloete said...

I hardly think about this -- I don't plan to get married, ever. But yes, I do agree with you that this is outdated and that it.should.stop.

There's no need for women to take their new husband's name. We might as well go back to being called Mrs Doctor or Mrs Carl Steinem.

Anonymous said...

What alternative naming conventions would you suggest?

Clarissa said...

Just keep your own name. You do keep the first name no matter how many times you get married, don't you? It's just as easy to keep your last name. :-)

Anonymous said...

What about the kids though?

Clarissa said...

What about us? :-)

Let me tell you from personal experience, a decision by a mother to keep her own name causes absolutely no pain and sufferring to her children. :-)

Amanda said...

I disagree with you. You can be a feminist no matter what your name is. I've talked to my boyfriend about this-- I have mixed feelings on changing my last name, but like his name better. Our names don't mesh into something nice and smooth. I want us to have the same last name, and the legal procedures really ARE easier for a woman to to change her name to her husband's at the time of marriage. But we both want to have the same last name, and he feels an attachment to his. Mine is nice enough, but its just a name, and as things are, my youth is a little too googleable.

But-- the googling, the history, the sound of it-- even without those, it shouldn't matter to anyone but myself and future husband that I'll be changing my name. How the fuck will they know that Ms. X used to be Ms. Y, unless they know me well enough to know a whole hell of a lot more than my name.

It would be a shame if anyone discounted a woman's feminist actions because she took the last name of her husband. I can't imagine that changing a name is enough to make an abortion rights, gay marriage, equal pay, and equal opportunity activist not a feminist.

Clarissa said...

"But we both want to have the same last name, and he feels an attachment to his. "

-So he has a right to an attachment to a name and you don't? How come?

Personal IS political, Amanda. Unless we live a feminist lifestyle, all our talk about feminism remains just talk. Patriarchy is about men being more valuable than women in everything. In big things and in small things. And a name is just one of these things.

Suggest to a man that he should change his name to his wife's and observe a reaction. You'll see sarcasm, outrage, scoffing, laughing. Why are we even discussing something that people of a certain gender have to do exclusively just because of their gender? What is feminist about that??

Think about the entire history, the entire patriarchal heritage behind this tradition of a woman abandoning her name in marriage. Think about everything it used to symbolize. You cannot participate in the act of changing your name to a man's without signalling your approval for that disgusting patriarchal tradition of a woman being passed on as property from one male to another.

And if you don't like your last name very much, is there no woman among YOUR ancestors whom you admire? Take her name and celebrate her life.

Whether we want it or not, a marriage can fall apart (like mine did, for example.) So what do we do in that case, travel through life changing our name every time we fall in love? Why should love always mean abandoning your identity for women and never for men?

Clarissa said...

'the legal procedures really ARE easier for a woman to to change her name to her husband's at the time of marriage."

-So as feminists we should fight against that, not reinforce this injustice by acquiescence!

Eric said...

-So he has a right to an attachment to a name and you don't? How come?

I don't think that was what she was saying at all. She was saying that she doesn't care about her name much. Now you could try to make the case that that is a result of being brought up being told she'd lose her last name someday or that its an attempt to justify giving in or something but I don't know that there's evidence for that.

As to your post I agree with the gist in that I think the expectation of women to give up their last name is misogynistic and unfair. That said I don't feel comfortable endorsing this no true Scotsman approach to feminism.

Saying that we can judge a woman's feminism based on one action as opposed to looking at the details of her life seems like a very narrow way of viewing the situation. Like everything else in life feminism is in shades of gray not black and white. People can be feminist in some ways and not in others, to deny them the label outright seems unfair.

Also I don't know exactly how to frame it, but I can imagine a perfect world where there was true equality of the sexes. And there for whatever reason some women chose to take their husbands name after marriage. I then think that those same reasons could exist in this world. As in someone could want to change their last names for reasons not involving sexism and to automatically label them is to paint with too broad a brush.

After all I'm a man and if I ever get married I would seriously consider changing my name. Though to be fair this is inspired by a desire to buck the system.

Still I feel like saying that all cases are the same isn't the approach to viewing the world we should try to adopt. I mean instead of saying saying that all women change their names because of sexism its easy to say that most or the vast majority or something like that. I guess maybe its a semantic quibble but I dislike seeing labels applied to broad groups without regard for possible exceptions.

I don't want to give the impression that I think this is common at all. I think its a horrible custom and almost always a very sexist thing. I'm just not willing to say that it absolutely always under all circumstances must be that way.

Clarissa said...

"Still I feel like saying that all cases are the same isn't the approach to viewing the world we should try to adopt. I mean instead of saying saying that all women change their names because of sexism its easy to say that most or the vast majority or something like that. I guess maybe its a semantic quibble but I dislike seeing labels applied to broad groups without regard for possible exceptions."

-I have never met such an "exception". Have you? Can you think of any other reason where a woman changes her name to a man's that are NOT sexist? I can't think of any. I don't think that anybody would do something like that in a sexism-free world.

But if you can suggest such an "exceptional" reason for a name change, I'd be happy to hear about it.

Eric said...

Well Amanda posted what she at least considers such a reason.

In addition I do know someone in my life who is at least considering changing her name. And to be sure she's conflicted about it and I have no idea what she will end up doing. But in talking with her sexism hasn't been the reason for most of the conflict, at least from her perspective. She and her fiance both like their names and the family they represent and she wants the family they become to have a singular name.

You don't have to agree with people like Amanda or my friend but you seem awfully dismissive.

I guess it seems to me that while to be certain when dealing with something so steeped in a history of misogyny and ingrained into our culture we shouldn't always take people at their word for why they are doing something. But to dismiss outright the possibility of alternative reasoning seems to be going to far.

I guess another way of looking at it is that some men take their wives name upon being married. A very small amount sure but they exist. Since they weren't raised to believe they should or had to give up their name they must have some sort of other reason. And I see no reason to think it's not possible for women to have the same alternative reason.

Once again I'm not saying this happens very often if at all.

Allison said...

I think I double posted my comment and it may have looked like I was spammnig.

I wasn't but I do need some clarification.

You stated that a woman isn't a feminist if she takes her husband's name. And that a woman taking her husband's name it means that is labeling herself as merely property of her husband.

A woman should keep her last name. BUT her last name is (usually) her father's name, so it should follow that a woman's last name, whether it's her family last name or married last name, marks her as nothing more than property of a man.

Because you say that my mother became nothing more than my father's property when she married him and took his name. So if it's unacceptable for my mother to take his name why is it acceptable for me to continue to use his last name?

Wouldn't the Real True Feminist thing for a woman to do is change her last name (or even her full name if her father picked out her first name) as soon as she was able? Otherwise she's just walking around as property of her father.

Clarissa said...

"But to dismiss outright the possibility of alternative reasoning seems to be going to far."

-Eric, nobody has offered any alternative reasoning on the subject, so you can't say I dismissed what wasn't offered in the first place. Somebody might want to change their name because they don't like it, that's true. But the only thing that makes sense in this case is to take a name of some family member (mother, grandmother, etc.) It makes no sense whatsoever to take the name of some guy who has many chances of ending up being just a temporary person in your life. I'm sure you know what the divorce rate is.

So while there might be other reasons to change your name, nobody has offered me an example of any other reason to change your name TO A MAN'S.

Clarissa said...

"BUT her last name is (usually) her father's name, so it should follow that a woman's last name, whether it's her family last name or married last name, marks her as nothing more than property of a man."

-The new traditions have to start somewhere. Why not with us? If you realize that this tradition is wrong and sexist, why perpetuate it?

"Wouldn't the Real True Feminist thing for a woman to do is change her last name (or even her full name if her father picked out her first name) as soon as she was able?"

-Great idea. I don't have this problem, though, because my mother never changed her last name on getting married. Si in my family the tradition of women keeping their names started a generation earlier and I can say from experience that it works great.

Eric said...

I feel that alternative reasons have been posted. First there was Amanda.

Next I mentioned my friend who wants her whole family to have the same name.

Lastly I gave the example of men taking their wives names. They must have an alternative reason and I don't see why women couldn't use that reason.

Allison said...

"Great idea. I don't have this problem, though, because my mother never changed her last name on getting married. Si in my family the tradition of women keeping their names started a generation earlier and I can say from experience that it works great."

So is your last name your mother's name or your father's or a combination?

And I'm still confused about how it was unacceptable for my mother to take my father's name but acceptable for me to keep his last name as mine.

I'd consider taking my (future) husband's name if it were easier to spell and pronounce than my current last name. I spend WAY too much time saying things like "Z as in ZEBRA" and then getting mail with my name spelled with a C and also trying to explain to people that the L sound they hear is E-L and L. And still seeing people write it down wrong.

My name isn't even that long!
And picking my mother's maiden name isn't an option since it's even rarer and harder for people to spell when they hear it.

Clarissa said...

"And I'm still confused about how it was unacceptable for my mother to take my father's name but acceptable for me to keep his last name as mine."

-Dear Allison, you didn't choose the first or the last name that were given you at birth. At that time, you might not even had any feminist consciousness. But today you do. And the conscious act of abandoning your name in favor of a man's signals your own readiness to participate in a patriarchal tradition. It is true that most people's mothers took their husbands' names when they got married. But the new tradition has to start somewhere. I think it makes sense for our generation to start this new tradition of keeping our own names. Why not?

As to not liking your name, there must be many men who feel the same about their names as you do about yours. Why don't we hear of them changing their names? What is the reason behind that? I don't understand how anybody can be a feminist and not ask themselves this question.

My last name is Slav and is really impossible to pronounce. I know that it also makes me unhireable at many places. But this is a name that has many diplomas and publications attached to it. It's the name that comes up as soon as you do a Google search on the word "Bildungsroman." This is what I made out of my name and it makes me very proud. I don't know what any man could offer me that would substitute all that.

Clarissa said...

Eric: I can't discuss the motivations of some hypothetical men whom I have never seen and whom nobody here has ever seen. When they come to this discussion, we can talk about their motivations. :-)

Independent said...

I know I am late on this discussion but I have an opinion. I actually do know european man that have taken their wives names and I think that is good. I did not take my husbands name and we are still fighting about the kids names. I want them to have my name and he wants them to have his name. For now we decided to call the girls by my name and the boys by his. I do know a family that did that and they didn't seem to suffer from that at all.


Anyways i just found your blog and I really like it.

Clarissa said...

Thank you, Independent. I think your decision on the kids' names is great. This goes to show that there are many alternatives to the traditional decisions and many great new traditions that can be started.

Anonymous said...

why can't the children have both the father's and the mother's last names?

in quebec, you are not allowed to change your last name to your husband's and if you want to get an alternative last name you need to apply and state your reasons which might be valid

Allison, I am sure that having a complicated last name is not the worst thing in the world, is it? it would suck much more to have to change it back and to change all of your documents if you were to get divorced

Mandie said...

I took my husband's rare (but simple) German last name and swapped my very common English/Welsh lastname in as my middle name, to replace "Lee" (Southern family. Need I explain more)? Now, instead of being one of several hundred me's (including at least three other women active in IT/CS alone!), I am the quite possibly the only person in the world with my first name/last name combination.

Getting that paperwork through here was a doozy - sure, some German women keep or hyphenate, but there's no such concept as making a maiden name part of your given names. I must say, the civil servant who did our wedding was open-minded about it once I started pressing my point - he called around to some other cities with large numbers of Americans, and failing to get any good answers, just crossed out the old middle name on my name change form and wrote an explanation that so far has got me what I wanted.

The unpleasant realities of German naming laws: only one spouse can change their name, you must choose a family name at the time of marriage that any resulting children will have, and that name must be either spouse's last name at time of birth. Therefore, if I had opted to hyphenate, the theoretical children would still just get my husband's name, and I'd still be stuck with a middle name that appears to honor the leader of the Confederate Army. If I kept my last name, things might get awkward at immigration for either me or my husband if we were traveling alone with the (theoretical) kids. I do not feel like battling the patriarchy when trying to get through customs to catch my next flight - or compelling my husband to.

To me, the empowering path was going with what I felt would preserve the parts of my personal and cultural identities that I like, along with dumping part that I've felt a bit uneasy about. I had to be persistent dealing with the authorities of a country where I'm a conspicuous (though, as an American, high-status) foreigner as soon as I attempt to speak the language. This experience has made me more confident dealing with German authorities.

My husband very wisely said, "it's your name" when I was bouncing my options off him (actually, I got a bit annoyed that he DIDN'T express an opinion). He did reject changing his name, but again, it's his name to do with as he likes. When I was originally discouraged about getting my name change through the way I wanted it and considered "just taking something normal", he pushed me to stick with it, to get the name I felt most suited me.

My in-laws, though initially a bit confused (was it hyphenated?), have taken to addressing my mail as Amanda Myoldlastname Mynewlastname, just like my passport and resumes say. Then again, this is a family which encouraged their daughters to go to university in the 1950s, assuming that of course they'd have careers...

Leaving my name alone would have been an easier, more passive option.

To me, feminism isn't just what you decide to call yourself - it's how and why.

Clarissa said...

With al due respect, Mandie, from what I understand here, your husband refused to change his name and refused to participate in the process of figuring out this "problem". He basically signalled that it's your problem to resolve. And you proceeded to resolve it. The two of you had a profoundly different reaction to this whole thing. Your husband seems to feel that he is entitled to keeping his name and everything else is for a woman to figure out.

To me, this is a story about how old gender roles are completely reaffirmed in this particular case. And it isn't just about the specific name-changing. It's about the entire scenario of a man making a decision and then sitting there comfortably while a woman bustles around trying to make this decision work.

Clarissa said...

" am sure that having a complicated last name is not the worst thing in the world, is it? it would suck much more to have to change it back and to change all of your documents if you were to get divorced"

-It's interesting that none of those who defend name-changing addressed this issue. The divorce rate is over 60% and growing, so at the time of divorce a woman has to go through additional discomfort and trouble of changing her name back. If you are married more than once, then it turns into a total freak show of changing your name and then changing it back and then going through the process all over again. I know a woman who got married 3 times, so the whole process consisted of 5 name changes. And nobody guarantees this is her last marriage.

Independent said...

I agree that one problem of us woman is that we take on all the work in the relationship in the marriage. We have to stop. Taking the easy way of just keeping your name is fine. Why do things always have to be complicated for us woman and easy for man. Make it easy for yourself

Clarissa said...

Thank you, Independent. That's exactly what I've trying to say. Often it's like women are the only ones interested in the relationship. I'm sure that if we stop trying to do all the work in the relationship, men will step up to the plate and do some of the work themselves.

Greenmom said...

I know this is a year later, but it just made me smile a little given what happened with me a few months ago...

I did change my last name to my husband's when we married, and kept my "birth" last name as my middle name but use all three regularly--no hyphen, just three names. (It was one of the many anti-feminist hills I just chose not to die on; maybe I'm just not a "good enough" feminist, but I can't fight all the battles at once, and this one I just didn't feel up to. And ten years ago, I was a little less of a feminist.) But I continued to publish under my birth name.

So this autumn a piece of music I composed under my birth/publishing name gets some high-ish profile play at my church. With my publishing name--not my husband's--right there in black and white. And suddenly there was all this gossip and murmuring around the church...oh no, Jenn and her husband have split up! What happened??!!...it was unbelievable.

It was the first time it occurred to me to actually get angry about this whole subject.

I think the "hill to die on" concept is still something that could use a little nuancing from the expressed "how can you be a feminist and take his name" idea of the OP, and I'm surprised no one has yet expressed it--I personally just can't fight 'em all at once. The marriage itself is fairly egalitarian, though it's a work in progress, and I refuse to succumb to all the "wow, you're so lucky to have a husband who _____" --fill in the blank with some ordinary thing related to equal partnered life together; not lucky, just partnered, and if y'all choose to yield to the stereotypes, that's your business. The battles I chose to fight are the more concrete quality-of-life ones, and I sadly abandoned a few of the "conceptual ideals" ones. I'm fairly comfortable with my decisions, and my feminism, like my marriage, is still a work in progress.

But my publishing name ain't changing.

bellofsunshine said...

I don't think that's fair. I think you can be a feminist and change your last name. I am thinking about changing my last name because my father is not a very nice person. Why should I have to keep HIS name? Following this line of thought, I should make up my own last name and not be defined by my father OR my husband. And maybe I SHOULD do that instead. But unless you have dropped your father's name, I don't think it's fair to attack women who take their husband's name because you don't know why they are doing it. I know where the tradition came from, but I also know where the tradition of engagement rings and weddings came from... In fact, marriage in general as a tradition has a murky, twisted past. So you could argue that if you get married at all you are not a feminist. I don't think it's fair to attack people you don't know and tell them why they can't be feminists.

Clarissa said...

I really wish people would read before leaving inane comments like this one. All this has been responded to a gazillion times before.

Don't like your father's name? Drop it and take your mother's. Problem solved. I have been given my mother's last name at birth and through all my marriages I still wear it proudly.

I can tell people whatever the hell I want on my own blog.

And next time please read the discussion before posting such vapid comments.

Apartment Planner said...

@bellofsunshine: I actually think as a true feminist you have to say no to engagement rings and engagement proposals in general. However getting married I think is open for debate in my opinion. I think getting married should be a decision made between two people (whatever gender they may be) to spend their live together. You don't have to do that but you can. It is a choice. An engagement proposal after that is a completely useless act since you have already decided and if you haven't then it is not equal in terms of gender equality if the guy has to do it. An engagement ring is either a useless symbol that was anyways invented by the diamond industry to mark that the woman is no longer available whereas the man doesn't need to be marked or it is a sign that you were able to score a wealthy husband which I am happy for you but is that your main achievement. (well then I am sorry.)

Ms. not Mrs. said...

Well, I came to this blog through searching for some input on this, because I have recently married. I also hold a Bachelors in Women and Gender Studies. I was hoping for input, and perhaps compassion on this tricky and multi dimensional problem. Instead, I feel all I got was judgment. I don't feel that feminism should be focused on excluding members to the cause. I used to think that much of what pegged women against each other, was women projection patriarchal beliefs on each other. However, in this situation it's women taking the beauty of feminism, and using it as yet another tool to dissect and separate women. I am very much aware of the history of women taking their husbands name, and of course I disagree with it...but, just as with any issue, it is very dangerous to over simplify it. I don't know what I will ultimately decide, but what I do know is women should come together as a united front against the real problems facing women.

Clarissa said...

The idea that I shouldn't be critical of anybody just because she has a vagina sounds deeply sexist to me.

I also don't see anything all that tricky and complex about the issue.

Ms. not Mrs. said...

Your mistaken to make the assumption that all feminists are males, and therefore have a "vagina". Also, you're inability, or unwillingness to see this as more than a black and white issue merely shows me that I sought out insight where there was none.

Clarissa said...

This is getting too bizarre. Males mostly don't have vaginas.

Be that as it may, I reserve the right to express opinions and judgments of people irrespective of their gender.